Ibrani 12:9

12:9 Besides, we have experienced discipline from ¹  our earthly fathers ²  and we respected them; shall we not submit ourselves all the more to the Father of spirits and receive life? ³ 

Ibrani 12:23

12:23 and congregation of the firstborn, who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous, who have been made perfect,

[12:9]  ¹ tn Grk “we had our earthly fathers as discipliners.”

[12:9]  ² tn Grk “the fathers of our flesh.” In Hebrews, “flesh” is a characteristic way of speaking about outward, physical, earthly life (cf. Heb 5:7; 9:10, 13), as opposed to the inward or spiritual dimensions of life.

[12:9]  ³ tn Grk “and live.”

[12:9]  sn Submit ourselves…to the Father of spirits and receive life. This idea is drawn from Proverbs, where the Lord’s discipline brings life, while resistance to it leads to death (cf. Prov 4:13; 6:23; 10:17; 16:17).